The reality of scaling a bootstrapped SaaS with Josh Ho @Refferal Rock

saas.unbound is a podcast for and about founders who are working on scaling inspiring products that people love, brought to you by https://saas.group/, a serial acquirer of B2B SaaS companies.

In episode #15 of season 5 of the saas.unbound podcast, Anna Nadeina sits down with Josh Ho, founder of Referral Rock. Referral Rock empowers businesses to build automated customer referral and affiliate marketing programs, helping them grow through word-of-mouth and partnerships. This insightful conversation dives deep into Josh’s entrepreneurial journey, the challenges and wins of bootstrapping a SaaS company, evolving marketing strategies, team dynamics, and how emerging technologies like AI are shaping the future.

Josh Ho’s Background and the Birth of Referral Rock

Josh’s career began in software engineering, transitioning from electrical engineering to running software teams. Around 2005, inspired by the burgeoning Web 2.0 and SaaS wave, he launched his first app, Ubernote, a note-taking app competing with Evernote. Despite early enthusiasm, Josh admits to missing key trends like mobile, which significantly impacted Ubernote’s success. The economic downturn during 2008-2009 also made it difficult to convert free users into paying customers, highlighting the challenges of consumer SaaS at the time.

After consulting for a few years and reflecting on lessons learned, Josh decided to return to SaaS—but this time focusing on B2B. This pivot led to the creation of Referral Rock, aimed at solving real problems for small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs) through customer referral and affiliate marketing automation.

The Inspiration Behind Referral Rock

The idea came from a casual observation at a car repair shop where Josh noticed a salesperson’s reaction when a referred customer walked in. This sparked the question: How do local businesses harness referral programs in the digital age? He found that while big companies and e-commerce platforms had referral software, SMBs were underserved. Referral Rock was born to fill this gap, focusing on the unique needs of smaller businesses that operate differently from large e-commerce players.

SEO and Marketing Evolution: From Inbound to Changing Search Behaviors

Josh credits early success to mastering SEO, which generated significant inbound leads without cold calling or door-to-door sales. However, he acknowledges that SEO has evolved dramatically, especially with the rise of AI and frequent algorithm updates. While Referral Rock still ranks well for specialized referral marketing topics, the landscape has become more competitive and less predictable.

Josh also observes changing consumer behaviors, with audiences preferring bite-sized, TikTok-style educational content even on platforms like LinkedIn. This shift challenges SaaS companies to adapt their marketing and product interfaces to match familiar consumer experiences, reducing friction and accelerating adoption.

Team Dynamics and Growth Challenges

Referral Rock’s growth journey has not been without bumps. Josh reflects on the post-2022 period when growth plateaued despite previous 50% year-over-year increases. Key challenges included internal operational issues and team dynamics, especially within the onboarding and customer success teams.

Josh shares candid insights about the difficulties of scaling a remote team while managing expectations around roles and salaries. The company had to recalibrate its approach, renaming roles from “customer success” to “onboarding specialists” to better reflect responsibilities and manage unit economics. They also shifted hiring strategies from seeking rare “unicorn” employees with multiple skill sets to training more focused specialists, recognizing the changing remote work landscape.

Understanding Affiliate and Referral Marketing for SMBs

Josh emphasizes that affiliate and referral programs are not simple transactional “set and forget” hacks. Success depends on knowing your affiliates or partners well, having an existing customer base that loves your product, and selecting the right incentives. For SMBs, partnerships often require seeding the program carefully with trusted individuals before scaling. Referral Rock’s content educates businesses on these nuances, helping them avoid common pitfalls.

Interestingly, Josh notes that startups often aren’t the best fit for referral programs early on, as these programs work best when layered on top of other growth flywheels and with a strong customer base already in place.

Biggest Wins and Failures

Josh’s biggest win is simply the persistence to keep grinding and growing Referral Rock over the years, building a strong team and culture that can weather challenges. He credits this resilience with enabling them to overcome plateaus and continue evolving.

His biggest failure, he admits, is a stubbornness to jump on emerging trends quickly enough—whether that was missing the mobile shift with Ubernote or not raising capital during peak market conditions in 2020-2021. This cautious approach has shaped both the company’s trajectory and his personal leadership style.

The Role of AI: Preparing the Team and Exploring Opportunities

Josh views AI as a valuable tool more for internal efficiency and augmentation than a fundamental change to Referral Rock’s core product. The company is encouraging its development team to experiment with AI tools, dedicating focused time to explore practical applications such as improving customer insights or automating reporting.

He stresses the importance of transparency and open conversations around AI to alleviate employee fears of job replacement, creating a culture that embraces AI as an opportunity to “level up” rather than a threat.

Practical Growth Hack: Qualifying Leads with a Smart Dropdown

One of Josh’s favorite growth hacks is a dropdown menu on Referral Rock’s signup and demo forms that asks visitors why they are interested in the product. This simple yet powerful tool segments users by their familiarity and intent, such as “I want to start my first referral program” versus “I’m looking to replace my referral software.”

This data helps the team route leads appropriately—whether to a self-service demo or a sales representative—and informs positioning and content strategies. It also provides ongoing insights into customer needs, helping Referral Rock adapt over time.